Open dialogue

P5....Very insightful views, you haven't disappointed at all. I'll put my views on each, under yours, I lose track of what I'm saying otherwise...CRAFT ya know! lol

JI...First, neither person running for the election would be my first choice! But if I have to choose, here’s why…


P5...Originally my first choice was Fred Thompson but when he bailed, it became Mitt Romney...no skeletons and married to the same woman his entire married life speaks volumes as to character!


JI...This country needs a clearly different path….one that will regain some of the rights we’ve had before. I believe that Obama is young enough, smart enough to do it. I don’t believe he owes quite so many FAVORS as McCain does thus allowing him to really put forth what he thinks will be a solution. Much the same way Kennedy did.


P5...Reform, not 'change' is what's really needed, the system is a good system, it just needs fixed; not changed.
Actually, obama 'owes' more in favors than are on the surface...bill ayers gave him his leg up in politics, acorn was a part of his life as a community organizer...having given them a large part of 50 mil from one of those funds he sat with bill ayers on the board with...tanneberg or something, tony rezko who got him thousands in campaign contributions and that sweetheart deal on his Chicago mansion...to say nothing of having to 'pay back the Chicago machine'...yep, he's indebted up to his ears.

Far as McCain goes, you can't be in the Senate and Congress as long as he has and not have associates but I believe he's been upstanding and forthright, not owing anything of consequence to anyone...remember, he was exonerated of any wrong doing in the keating 5.


JI...I think McCain has changed to the party line whether or not he WAS a maverick before. When he couldn’t do such a hatchet job on Obama, they brought in Palin. What did she have to lose? She can always go back to her job in Alaska! If they win, she would be in line to be president! But talk about someone who hasn’t done anything to earn it! I can almost hear the “party” telling her how they would push for her presidency! She plans to “run” the Senate! Give me a break!!! To be honest, before she came on the scene, I would have given a lot more thought to McCain for president.

P5...The Vice President does 'preside' over the Senate, most time they don't and only show up for a tie breaking vote but they are the President of the Senate, therefore I guess it can be said that they 'run' the Senate...Sarah has been working in the capacity of CEO of her State and the city of Wasilla, that gives her way more experience than either obama or biden.

McCain has been true to his word about negative campaigning...can't really say the same for his campaign tho...he did silence people going negative early on in the campaign and quiets the ones he can at rallies that spew hatred. Politics is politics, the VP has been the 'attack dog' for quite some time...I do not go for that stuff but when is an 'attack' really an 'attack? Is pointing out aspects of your opponent an attack or is screaming about the clothes they wear an attack? Why did Joe the plumber get more scrutiny in 24 hours from the MSM than obama get in over 20 months? Why were Ohio's government computers used to try getting dirt on Joe? (a punishable crime) The 'race card' has been thrown out by obama and his whole campaign although no mention of race has come from the McCain camp...don't you just wonder a little about that? In the Corps we called that a pre-emptive strike...same as the Japs at Pearl Harbor.


JI...Originally, I couldn’t see Obama – no way! That Jeremiah Wright was a killer!!! Then the stuff about that terrorist – can’t ever remember his name!


P5...Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Father Fhleger(still hard for me to get down my throat that he's a Catholic Priest!) and louie farrakhan calling obama the 'Messiah'....puhleeeze!



JI...I think Obama gave a good description of his relationship with him (the terrorist) in the final debate. If the republicans could have found ONE SHRED of more involvement, it would have front and center in their TV ads. Right or wrong??? About Wright, maybe he gave him some validation to his black background. But – think about this – he didn’t have a family history of slaves being brought to this county. His father was from Africa and there is no ax to grind there. He was brought up by his white grandparents and white mother. I don’t believe he has an inbred resentment for anyone. I think he’s grateful for the opportunities he was given as a poor person – and I don’t think it slipped by that it was because of being a poor black person.



P5...Coverage from the MSM is very lacking, they don't ask the hard questions of the democrat candidates, just softball them; if the Republicans bring it out, it's interepreted as an attack.
His accounting of their relationship was vague at best...the real mistake the Republicans made was not tying obama to all the Woods Foundation money, the tannenburg money and the fact that ayers to this day calls himself an anarchist who believes he didn't do enough in the 70's as a member of the Weather Underground.

His father was a muslim from Kenya, his birth certificate is iffy at best...if it's real, why not produce the original 'vault copy?...He did not come from slaves but from slave owners and traders...they sold their own people into slavery, dumbass whitey just 'bought the goods' and now carries the rap...bad timing! His white grandmother(whom he called a 'typical white woman who is afraid of black men)had been held back through most of the primaries, now he had to 'rush' to her sickbed? It was reported that she was sick and he'd be leaving for 2 days to be with her a week before he left and he only spent one day with her. Out of that day, how much time was with her? I see it as nothing more than a campaign ploy....hell, I told more better lies than obama!


JI...I heard with my own ears McCain say he was going to “go up against those big overgrown government unions” – the same one that helped you keep your job and get your pension! I believe there’s a lot to say for unions overstepping the original intention of these organizations – just as our founding fathers didn’t mean for the first amendment to allow so called news people the right to rail against our government and sitting presidents…what is the description for treason?


P5...Real meat here...seriously! I'm still as staunch a Union Member as I ever was but I still hold the same opinion as I did about them from '68...they need to police themselves! At Danner, after a while, I sat on the grievance joint standing committee....management hated me! Ernie Scozzarella and I had numerous discussions about the grievances filed...merit was the main concern. Management was not always wrong, nor were the Union Members...if a member filed for his job back but was totally out of bounds legally, how can that be defended? I wouldn't even go to the Union if I knew I was actually in the wrong. Collective Bargaining was another story, I sat on one or two of those committees and fought dave bracken unmerciful...he had me removed from one meeting because I'd hammered him rightfully really bad...he was a jerk. As a Union, we policed ourselves, if you didn't rate being 'moved up', you weren't even if the Company wanted it. Now the Postal Union is and was very different....whether you were right or wrong, they got jobs back and discipline reduced...is that right? I don't feel it is, simply because the workforce works different than Danner....a guy sluffun' off at the Post Office causes other carriers to carry more of the load....that ain't right and the goof-offs were smilin' all the time. I always conducted myself in the manner of a 'fair days work for a fair days wage'...anything less and I shouldered my blame...no, I'm not a martyr! The way things went for me at the PO the last 4 years I worked were abhorrent, no one should have to work under those conditions but I told them flat out...I ain't leavin' and you can't get anything on me to fire me...deal with it. Nerve wracking? Yes, but also fun in a twisted way. The lousy $535 a month from the PO is chicken feed, the only thing I got from them worth anything is the health insurance and I pay over $250 a month for that.


JI...Why do I care so much now? Well, there seems to be a widening separation between the rich and the middle class. It happened almost quietly. Remember the big deal trip to China by Nixon? Think some promises were made – in exchange for big business to make a killing?! Like I said, Reagan started the ball rolling. Bush 1 – I just found out – was the one who put the NAFTA agreement together although Clinton had to sign it.



P5...As for nixon and China, you should remember my feelings about that crap and my feelings about nixon in general, that he went down in history as a great statesman(he's a damn crook as far as I'm concerned and a paranoid one to boot!)is a great injustice. Sure, the books were cooked for bigger deals, hence the 'global economy' that we're saddled with to this day, furthered by Bush1 and his 'New World Order'...what a crock! But, had the Republicans not taken control of the House and Senate, welfare reform wouldn't have occurred and all the taxes levied on the middle class by xlinton would have doubled or even tripled....I put a lot on Ross Perot and myself(since I voted for Perot)for the election of that draft dodger xlinton whom I still hold in great contempt along with kerry and fonda. Worse than NAFTA is the threat of a North American Union in the mold of the European Union...sure, they have national health care but waiting for an appointment can lead to death before ever you see a doctor and forget a second opinion! The cost of health care is crazy...do the math, I pay $250+ a month for family coverage(have to wait for Zach to be on ChampVa before I can cancel it), is that anywhere near what they both say health care costs? When we got out of the Corps we got in a group for Blue Cross remember? What was out of pocket for that and you were covered immediately being pregnant with Josette at the time. Are we all being lied to and by whom? Johnny Carson said it best in the 50's....who do you trust?



JI...All I know is that I cannot be the only person who was not into the politics of each era so much – but woke up to find that things are all upside down! We expected our officials to PROTECT us from disaster … didn’t happen!!!



P5...Read that story about barney frank I sent earlier...after the democrats took control in '06 elections all this crap went unabated, McCain started warning of the Fannie and Freddie peril as early as '05 only to be hindered by the democrats. Remember what joe biden did to Sam Alito's wife during the judicial hearings? He reduced her to tears with lies and innuendo to try destroying her husband and keep him off the Supreme Court....why? because he interprets the constitution, doesn't re-write it; any 'protection' will come from the Judiciary(can't believe I'm saying this! lol)not from the corruption in Congress.



JI...I’m looking for Obama to get some public works projects started to employ people and get our cities up to date…possibly a way to pay for college. I think that’s one way he will change things. Not give things to people but rather give people a chance. EVERY American child should not only be encouraged to go on to higher education, but be given a leg up in the financial part of it! As it is right now, I don’t see anything promising about the futures of our grandchildren.



P5...Why not start with those receiving welfare? Have them work to get their checks and take random drug screenings, after all, it's the taxpayers money...hell, ya gotta take a drug test to get a job right? Students working their way thru college is a novel idea don't you think? Tony and Josette did it but what about the faculties of these 'higher learning institutions' Bill Ayers teaches at one and a lotta them are staffed by the same demonstrators from the SDS, Symbionese Liberation Party as well as outright communists...should we allow them to teach our young? The elementary schools are really no better, they are actively indoctrinating the young ones about sex and even going so far as making videos about how great obama is! Zach goes to Parochial School for more than just Religion, it's a more better learning environment and he will not be taught that being a homosexual is a choice in lifestyle.....tolerance of others beliefs is one thing but having those beliefs taught to young impressionable children is not something I'll stand aside for as I know you wouldn't either. It's a damn ugly world out there, I really wish our kids and grandkids, right down to Zach and little Joey could grow up in an environment like we enjoyed as kids....what an idea.


JI...That’s it for now…I hope it makes sense.



P5...Made a lotta sense, I hope what I said was as good as what you wrote....I do tend to wander off on a rant sometimes!



This has been a very welcome respite from the past 10 days or so, dialogue as above is refreshing and invigorating, not like the hate speech I've been getting. Although myself and Juliette India have differing opinions, a rational exchange has happened and I hope it continues.